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  #61  
Old 09-16-2015, 10:55 PM
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Name:  M123A1.jpg
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Name M123A1 High Explosive Plastic (HEP) Caliber 165mm
E-Factor =
DPW = 36,668 (15.88kg Compostion A-3)
Wt. 67.60 (30.66 kg)
Eff. Range 914m
Max. Range 914m
Burst Radius 25m
Type of Fire Breech loaded (M135 Demolition Gun)
Rate of Fire Single
Feed Device n/a
Feed Device Wt. Manually loaded
Basic Load 30 rounds stowed in the M728 CEV
Load Wt.
Total Wt.
Additional Comments:This cartridge is a chemical energy round designed for demolition. It is capable of damaging or destroying the type of structures (log
walls, concrete bunkers, etc.) and equipment (abandoned vehicles etc.) encountered on a battlefield. It is also effective as an antipersonnel round.

Limitations:
Functional reliability will be degraded when impacting soft targets such as marshy, sandy, clay, mud, or snow covered terrain.
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  #62  
Old 09-27-2015, 11:46 AM
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Hi Nuke!

Is this still current? I am thinking of going on a non-U.S. ATGM game stats spree....... Would this list be the most current still?

I need to add Caribbean, Central America, Canadian, and more Soviet to the threats to Project or KFS equipment.

May even do some torpedoes and anti-ship weapons.


Quote:
Originally Posted by nuke11 View Post
Here is an updated chart.

Explosive Relative Effectiveness Chart 1.0

Common Name(s) RE
Dynamite (40% Ammonia) 0.31
Ammonium Nitrate (AN + <0.5% H2O) 0.32
Dynamite (40% Gelatin) 0.32
Black Powder (75% KNO3 + 19% C + 6% S) 0.38
Dynamite (60% Ammonia) 0.40
Hexamine Dinitrate (HDN) 0.45
Dinitrobenzene (DNB) 0.45
Dynamite (40% Nitroglycerin) 0.49
HMTD (Hexamine Peroxide) 0.56
ANFO (94% AN + 6% Fuel Oil) 0.56
Dynamite (60% Gelatin) 0.57
TATP (Acetone Peroxide) 0.60
Tovex Extra (AN Water Gel) Commercial Product 0.60
Hydromite 600 (AN Water Emulsion) Commercial Product 0.60
Dynamite (60% Nitroglycerin) 0.62
ANNMAL (67% AN + 25% NM + 5% Al + 3% C) 0.65
Amatol (50% TNT + 50% AN) 0.68
Nitroguanidine 0.75
Trinitrotoluene (TNT) 0.75
Hexanitrostilbene (HNS or JD-X) 0.79
Nitrourea (N-nitrourea, 1-nitrourea or N-nitrocarbamide) 0.79
Amatol (80% TNT + 20% AN) 0.83
Nitrocellulose (13.5% N, NC) 0.83
Nitromethane (NM) 0.83
Diethylene Glycol Dinitrate (DEGDN) 0.88
Tritonal (80% TNT + 20% Aluminum Powder) 0.88
Triaminotrinitrobenzene (TATB) 0.88
Picric Acid (TNP) 0.90
Trinitrobenzene (TNB) 0.90
Tetrytol (70% Tetryl + 30% TNT) 0.90
Dynamite (75% NG + 23% Diatomite) 0.94
Tetryl (2,4,6-Trinitrophenylmethylnitramine) 0.94
Composition C3 (87% RDX) 1.00
Composition C4 (91% RDX) 1.00
Composition A3 (91% RDX) 1.00
Pentolite (56% PETN + 44% TNT) 1.00
Semtex 1A (76% PETN + 6% RDX) 1.01
Composition B (60% RDX + 40% TNT) 1.01
Composition A4 (97% RDX) 1.01
Composition H6 (45% RDX + 30% TNT + 20% Powdered Aluminum) 1.01
Cyclotol (70% RDX + 30% TNT) 1.01
Hydrazine Mononitrate 1.07
RISAL P (51% IPN + 28% RDX + 14% Al + 4% Mg + 0.7% Zr + 2% NC) 1.13
Nitroglycerin (NG) 1.16
Octol (80% HMX + 19% TNT + 1% DNT) 1.16
Gelatine (92% NG + 7% Nitrocellulose) 1.20
Erythritol tetranitrate (ETN) 1.20
NTO (Nitrotriazolon) 1.20
Hexogen (RDX) 1.20
Penthrite (PETN) 1.25
Ethylene glycol dinitrate (EGDN) 1.25
TNAZ (Trinitroazetidine) 1.28
HMX Grade A (Octogen) 1.28
HMX Grade B (Octogen) 1.28
HNIW (CL-20) 1.35
Hexanitrobenzene (HNB) 1.35
MEDINA (Methylene dinitroamine) 1.45
DDF (4,4'-Dinitro-3,3'-diazenofuroxan) 1.46
Octanitrocubane (ONC) 1.79
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  #63  
Old 09-27-2015, 07:29 PM
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Updated the spreadsheet with the add ins from Nuke11 in the body of the thread and my weapons description short cut.

Alphabetized by explosive type too.

morrow_ex.xlsx
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  #64  
Old 09-27-2015, 07:48 PM
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Name: M21 Anti-Tank, Heavy
Wt: 17.5 lbs.
Burst Radius:
DPW: 11428 Main chg Comp H-6 10.8 lb 4.9 kg
Packaging: 2 mines w/2 fuzes w/2 boosters in barrier bag. 2 bags (4 mines) w/2 wrenches in wire-bound box
Package Wt: 90 lb
Package Dimensions: 29-1/4 x 12-1/2 x13-1/2 in.
Effects.
Use:
Mine M21 is used primarily for destroying tanks and tracked and wheeled vehicles. It is a standoff type that can penetrate 3-inch armor plate at a distance of 21 inches. It also functions as a blast-type mine (E-factor 204)

Functioning:
The fuze M607 for the mine is actuated by applying a horizontal force greater than 3.75 pounds at the end of the extension rod. The fuze is also actuated by a directly applied downward force of 290 pounds. The fuze ignites the black powder expelling charge in the mine and the resulting detonation opens up the mine cover and removes the earth covering the mine. Back pressure from the burning propellant drives the firing pin into the M42 primer which, in turn, ignites the delay assembly. After 0.15 second, the relay assembly is detonated, firing the M120 booster, which, in turn, fires the main charge. The steel dish is then driven at high velocity against the target. The arming wrench M26 is provided for use with this mine and fuze.

Last edited by ArmySGT.; 09-27-2015 at 08:34 PM.
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  #65  
Old 09-27-2015, 08:08 PM
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Name: M26 Anti personnel
Wt: 2.2lbs, 997.9031g
Burst Radius:
DPW: 396 Main Chg Comp B 0.375 lb 170 gm
Packaging: 3 mines per fiber container, 6 containers (18 mines) per wooden box
Package Wt: 60lb, 27kg 215.5400g
Package Dimensions: 21-1/4 x 12-1/2 x 9-3/4 in.
Effects.

Functioning:
Setting the mine to the armed (A) position rotates the barrel assembly so that the primer and delay assembly are in direct alinement with the flash hole in the barrel assembly and with the expelling charge directly above. A force of 14 to 28 pounds on the mine top, or a pull on the top level will activate the mine. Upon actuation, the spring loaded firing pin is released
and fires the primer and delay assembly which ignites the expelling charge. This ejects the fragmenting ball assembly to a height of approximately 2 meters. The delay, ignited by the expelling charge, then initiates the
booster which detonates the main charge, shattering the fragmenting ball. The mine may be rigged for tripwire activation. Remove the trip lever from storage in the spool assembly and insert in the threaded well in the
cam, top, center. Attach one or more of the tripwires, as required.

Attached to, but easily removable from the mine are the following accessories: Arming Handle, Arming Instruction Tag, Trip Lever, and Spool Assembly. Four 20 foot trip wires, two colored olive drab and two tan, are stored on the spool.
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Old 09-27-2015, 08:30 PM
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Name: M86 Pursuit Denial Munition
Wt:
Burst Radius:
DPW: 49 Main Charge Comp A5 21 gr
Packaging:
Package Wt:
Package Dimensions:
Effects.
The M86 Antipersonnel Mine is manually armed by removing the safety clip and then the arming strap assembly. A camming action breaks the shorting bar and forces the battery ball against the battery breaking the glass ampule containing an electrolyte which activates the reserve battery and provides power. The shorting bar hook, attached to the cam, shears the shorting bar (a safety device across the detonator). After a 60-second (nominal) electronic time delay, a piston actuator in the Safe and Arm mechanism is electrically fired, moving a slider to align the detonator with an explosive lead in the slider. At the same time, seven sensor triplines are released. Approximate three or four triplines will deploy up to 20 feet from the mine, depending upon the at-rest position of the mine. The remaining triplines may be hindered due to their proximity to the resting surface. After an additional 10- second electronic time delay, allowing the munition to return to equilibrium, the mine is fully armed electronically. Disturbance of a tripline, or the mine itself, now triggers a switch which completes an electronic firing circuit. The S&A electric detonator initiates the S&A firing train which initiates a detonating cord which then initiates a thin layer of liquid propellant, which by gravity rests under the kill mechanism, shattering the plastic mine body and propelling the kill mechanism upwards from 6 inches to 8 feet above the ground where it detonates. The kill mechanism is a spheroid internally embossed and loaded with 21 grams of Comp A5 and when detonated, propels fragments in a high velocity spherical pattern.
If the mine is not activated by tripline or disturbance mode, a factory preset self-destruct feature initiates the mine in 4 hours plus 0-20 percent.
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  #67  
Old 09-28-2015, 04:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArmySGT. View Post
Hi Nuke!

Is this still current? I am thinking of going on a non-U.S. ATGM game stats spree....... Would this list be the most current still?

I need to add Caribbean, Central America, Canadian, and more Soviet to the threats to Project or KFS equipment.

May even do some torpedoes and anti-ship weapons.
Yes this is still my current work. I've been digging around for Soviet information, but it seems to be a bit harder to find for some reason.
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  #68  
Old 11-07-2015, 08:44 PM
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For M102 Howitzer (KFS issue) towed behind one M35 2 1/2 ton truck.

Caliber: 105mm
Weight: 1500kg
ROF: 5 round per minute
Maximum range: 14,000 Meters
Feed Device: Single shot, screw type breech
Basic Load: 150 rounds
Ammunition types: HE, WP, Illum
Crew: 8



Name M1 105mm HE
E-Factor =
DPW = 6136 (2.63084kg Compostion B) or 3771 (2.17724kg TNT)
Wt. 39.92 lbs (18.107407 kg)
Eff. Range 11500m
Max. Range 11,500m
Burst Radius 25m
Type of Fire single shot, screw type breech
Rate of Fire Single
Feed Device n/a
Feed Device Wt. Manually loaded
Basic Load 150 rounds
Load Wt.
Total Wt.
Additional Comments:Very basic HE artillery shell. Maybe fitted with a variety of fuses for air burst (Variable Time (VT)) which is preferred, impact, delay, and contact fuses.
Limitations:
Functional reliability will be degraded when impacting soft targets such as marshy, sandy, clay, mud, or snow covered terrain.

Use:
The projectile of this cartridge contains high explosive and is used for fragmentation, blast, and mining in support of ground troops and armored columns.

Description:
The projectile consists of a hollow steel forging with a boattail base, a streamlined ogive, and gilding metal rotating band. A base cover is welded to the base of the projectile for
added protection against the entrance of hot gases from the propelling charge during firing. The high explosive (HE) filler within the projectile may be either cast TNT or Composition B. A fuze cavity is either drilled or formed in the filler at the nose end of the projectile. This cavity may be either shallow or deep. A cavity liner, to preclude dusting of HE during transportation and handling, is seated in the cavity and expanded into the lower projectile fuze threads. A supplementary charge is placed in the fuze cavity of projectiles having deep cavities. Projectiles with shallow cavities or deep cavities containing a supplementary charge use only short intrusion fuzes, PD, or MT. Those with deep cavities will accept the long intrusion proximity fuze after removing the supplementary charge. Projectiles may be shipped with a PD or MTSQ fuze or with a closing plug. When
shipped with a closing plug, a chip board spacer is assembled between the supplementary charge and plug to limit movement of the former during transportation and handling.
The cartridge case contains a percussion primer assembly and seven individually bagged and numbered propelling charge increments. The base of the cartridge case is drilled and the primer assembly is pressed into the base. The percussion primer assembly consists of a percussion ignition element and a perforated flash tube containing black powder. The seven numbered increment bags are tied together, in numerical order, with acrylic cord. These are assembled into the cartridge case, around the primer flash tube, with Increment 1 at the base of the cartridge case and Increment 7 toward the mouth of the cartridge case.

Functioning:
If the projectile is unfuzed, the closing plug is removed and a fuze assembled to the projectile prior to adjusting the charge and loading the cartridge into the weapon. Impact of the weapon firing pin results in the initiation of the percussion primer which, in turn, ignites the black powder in the flash tube. The flash tube provides for uniform ignition of the propelling charge producing a rapid expansion of the propellant gas which propels the projectile out of the weapon tube. Engagement of the projectile rotating band with the rifling of the weapon tube imparts spin to the projectile providing inflight stability. Projectile functioning is dependent upon the fuze used and may function on impact (instantaneous or delay), function above ground either at a predetermined height based upon time of flight or function in proximity with the target area. Fuze function detonates the HE projectile filler resulting in projectile fragmentation and blast.

Last edited by ArmySGT.; 11-07-2015 at 08:53 PM.
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  #69  
Old 01-01-2016, 06:22 PM
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CARTRIDGE, 25MM, ARMOR PIERCING DISCARDING SABOT-TRACER, M791
For use in M242 Bushmaster cannon.


M791 APDS-T.pdf

Last edited by ArmySGT.; 01-02-2016 at 02:56 PM.
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  #70  
Old 01-01-2016, 07:20 PM
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Cartridge, 25mm, armor piercing fin stabilized
discarding sabot-tracer, m919

M919 APFSDS-T.pdf

Last edited by ArmySGT.; 01-02-2016 at 02:57 PM.
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  #71  
Old 01-02-2016, 02:53 PM
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CARTRIDGE, 25MM, HIGH EXPLOSIVE INCENDIARY-TRACER, M792
For use in M242 Bushmaster cannon.

M792 HEI-T.pdf

Last edited by ArmySGT.; 01-02-2016 at 03:00 PM.
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  #72  
Old 02-16-2016, 01:40 PM
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relati...iveness_factor

Should a new formula include the detonation velocity to figure DPW?
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  #73  
Old 02-16-2016, 03:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArmySGT. View Post
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relati...iveness_factor

Should a new formula include the detonation velocity to figure DPW?
This may be a place to start:
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File Type: pdf IATG01.80.pdf (516.0 KB, 12 views)
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Old 02-16-2016, 03:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mmartin798 View Post
This may be a place to start:
Thanks for that! That will be helpful..... the fragmentation velocity calculation alone for one thing.

Currently, explosives are ranked and the damage points are factored off the given explosives effectiveness relative to an equivalent amount of TNT.

There is one difference not taken into account when factoring damage. The detonation velocity.

Looking for a way to model some explosives like thermobarics and give them their just do in power.

There are a number of thermobarics in the list... look for aluminum.
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Old 02-16-2016, 07:08 PM
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The Gurney Equations14 are a range of formulae used in explosives engineering to predict how fast an explosive will accelerate a surrounding layer of metal or other material when the explosive detonates. This determines how fast fragments are released on detonation of an item of ammunition. This initial fragment velocity can then be used with other ballistic equations to predict either danger areas or fragment penetration.



So what should the mass of shrapnel be?

I was going with 0.1 gram for a modern grenade. 0.5 gram for a modern mortar shell.

Anyone think more?
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  #76  
Old 02-16-2016, 08:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArmySGT. View Post
I was going with 0.1 gram for a modern grenade.
Based on data available on the M67, 0.1 gram is about right. The fragmentation coil is about 140 g and tests at the Armament Research, Development & Engineering Center in Picantinny, NJ showed about 1335 fragments.
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Old 02-16-2016, 10:39 PM
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so how about this.....

M67 Fragmentation grenade..

using the spherical charge equation.

(7620/(7620/0.333)=((0.1/0.18)+3/5)-1/2 <--- that in negative one half as an exponent.



22882 = 0.65555555555555555555555555555556

Fragment is moving a 0.66 meters per second?

But, then E-factor is based on speed and diameter of the projectile..... without weight as a factor.
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  #78  
Old 02-17-2016, 07:41 AM
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I think your algebra is off. I solved the equation for V and got the equation below.

Substituting the values I get V = 2730 m/s
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Old 02-17-2016, 09:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mmartin798 View Post
I think your algebra is off. I solved the equation for V and got the equation below.

Substituting the values I get V = 2730 m/s
Wouldn't surprise me a bit. Algebra is not one of my best subjects. I was trying to use the calculator built into Windows too. My scientific calculator is packed away.

So, with a velocity.... we need a diameter for the e-factor formula.

Modern grenade? 1mm? or 0.5 mm? for a fragment.......

WW2 grenade, 3mm? 5mm?
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Old 02-17-2016, 09:20 AM
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We might not need to know the size, but use a modified E-Factor calculation. The E-Factor is a measure of the wound cavity. As wound cavity is caused mostly by momentum conservation and transfer, it is the momentum of the fragment that matters. Momentum is just mass x velocity, which we have for fragmentation. We just need to find how the bullet diameter is related to mass and make the substitution.

Edit

Been giving this some more thought. We really don't need to mess with the formula if we have an idea of the fragment size, and that size can be calculated if we make some assumptions. If we assume the fragments are roughly cylindrical with diameter approximately the same as the height, we can use the density of steel and the mass we know to calculate the volume and extrapolate the dimensions. Sounds like a lunch time project.

Last edited by mmartin798; 02-17-2016 at 09:52 AM. Reason: Second cup of coffee
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Old 02-17-2016, 12:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArmySGT. View Post
So, with a velocity.... we need a diameter for the e-factor formula.

Modern grenade? 1mm? or 0.5 mm? for a fragment.......?
Ok, density of steel = 8.05 g/cm^3

Mass of an M67 fragment = 0.1 g

Volume of an M67 fragment = 0.1/8.05 = .01242 cm^3

Volume of a cylinder is given by:
V= pi * r^2 * h
Assuming height equals diameter gives:
V = pi * r^2 * 2 * r
V = 2 * pi * r^3
Solving for r gives:
r = (V/(2*pi))^(1/3)
Doing the substitutions and doubling the radius to get the diameter and height we get 0.251 cm or 2.51 mm

If we assume a softer steel with a density of 7.75 g/cm^3, the diameter comes to 2.54 mm

Last edited by mmartin798; 02-17-2016 at 12:41 PM.
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Old 02-17-2016, 01:55 PM
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Damn, that gives an M67 fragmentation grenade an Efactor of 18 per fragment and you roll 1d20 to determine the number of fragments that hit the target.

Guess, players aren't going to shrug that off like they did with resistweave and the old 4 points per fragment.
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  #83  
Old 02-17-2016, 03:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArmySGT. View Post
Damn, that gives an M67 fragmentation grenade an Efactor of 18 per fragment and you roll 1d20 to determine the number of fragments that hit the target.

Guess, players aren't going to shrug that off like they did with resistweave and the old 4 points per fragment.
I need to fix a couple things. First, I made an error with my equation illustration earlier and did a unit conversion wrong for the fragment velocity. The correct equation is below and the new M67 fragment velocity is 3278 m/s. So that makes the second thing to correct the EFactor for each fragment to 21. Sorry for the confusion there Sgt.

This means one of two things. We may need to adjust the number of fragments that strike a person to something lower or we just start carrying a big bag of M67s and lots of body armor.
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Old 02-17-2016, 04:48 PM
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It turns out that short cylinders have a high drag coefficient and lose velocity very quickly. This chart shows the effect of range on velocity and EFactor of M67 fragments from 0 to 50m.
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Old 02-17-2016, 04:57 PM
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Probably why they hammer into you that 5 meter spread... lethal radius is 10 meters and no two soldiers should get caught in it.
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Old 02-17-2016, 04:58 PM
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another job well done by the way!
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Old 02-17-2016, 06:02 PM
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For those who want to calculate values for other grenades, here is a spreadsheet you can use. Remember the assumptions used in these calculations are that the fragments are generated from a wire coil and the fragments are all uniform and the same length as the diameter of the wire. The fragments are therefore short cylinders and have a drag coefficient of 1.15.
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File Type: xlsx Fragmentation Grenade Calculations.xlsx (9.4 KB, 7 views)
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Old 02-17-2016, 06:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nuke11 View Post
Yes this is still my current work. I've been digging around for Soviet information, but it seems to be a bit harder to find for some reason.
Did I send you the Defense Intelligence Agency munitions guide I have?

I got it off of Scribd.... Which has been a good source for these.
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Old 02-17-2016, 08:16 PM
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Ok, the problem you have at the moment is the document is based on TNT equivalent of an RE of 1.00. The game uses C4 as it's equivalent for an RE of 1.00 and TNT has an RE of 0.75 in the game.

You will need to adjust all of the formulas from the document accordingly.

Doesn't the M67 have a solid steel case that also needs to be taken into account for the fragments? Here is a good website that shows what some of the fragments look like: http://machinesforwar.blogspot.ca/2012/03/m67.html

Some more images of the inside of the case and what the fragments look like: http://www.big-ordnance.com/grenades...CutawayM67.jpg and http://www.big-ordnance.com/grenades/loworderM67.JPG

The M26 is the grenade with a spiral wound wire core: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...ut/OR-034A.jpg

Last edited by nuke11; 02-17-2016 at 08:39 PM.
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  #90  
Old 02-18-2016, 03:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nuke11 View Post
Ok, the problem you have at the moment is the document is based on TNT equivalent of an RE of 1.00. The game uses C4 as it's equivalent for an RE of 1.00 and TNT has an RE of 0.75 in the game.

You will need to adjust all of the formulas from the document accordingly.
The Gurney equations don't care about the RE at all. It only uses the uses the Gurney constant which does not necessarily correlate with RE. Taking the example of making C4 1.00 and TNT 0.75, we would expect TNT to perform at 75% of C4. But that is not the case. C4 has a Gurney constant of 2530 m/s and TNT is 2438 m/s, which makes TNT perform at 96% of C4. The equation in my spreadsheet uses the approximation of the Gurney constant, which is one third of the detonation velocity. For C4 that works out to 8200/3 or 2733 and TNT is 6900/3 or 2300. That makes TNT 84% of C4, which is closer to the 75% you are looking for already.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nuke11 View Post
Doesn't the M67 have a solid steel case that also needs to be taken into account for the fragments? Here is a good website that shows what some of the fragments look like: http://machinesforwar.blogspot.ca/2012/03/m67.html

Some more images of the inside of the case and what the fragments look like: http://www.big-ordnance.com/grenades...CutawayM67.jpg and http://www.big-ordnance.com/grenades/loworderM67.JPG

The M26 is the grenade with a spiral wound wire core: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...ut/OR-034A.jpg
The method of determining fragment size was an approximation intended to simplify the math and make fragments of uniform dimensions that can be directly plugged into the EFactor equation. While we could take the mass of the case and the diameter of the grenade to determine an approximate thickness and then divide the surface area up into the number of fragments to get the area of the face which is more accurate as to what happens with the case of the M67, we are then stuck with fragments that are essentially flat tiles. There is no diameter that we can reasonably put through the EFactor equation as it is shown in the rules. Even though we can calculate the kinetic energy of these flat tile fragments, that is still not enough information to determine the wound generating capability of the fragments. KE alone has been shown time and time again to bot be reliable in wound cavity calculation. The EFactor used in the rules is similar to wound approximation models for significant number to ballistic rounds. So while the wire core is not what happens with an actual M67, it works better for incorporating with the EFactor of other weapons in the game.
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